All right then
looks like everyone's being recorded, loud and clear beer
and
Dante. Can you just give me a sound off?
Hello. Get
working. Well,
cool.
Seems we only have uh
about
anywhere from 8 to 10 people in the audience currently.
I'm not sure if the whole like pings gone out yet.
I
do one of those odd days where it splits.
Yeah,
I'm not usually here. Uh You know, perhaps I could just introduce myself. Uh
I am Dante and I,
I am less of a less and less moderation and more.
I do like technical support for the moderation team as well as like other support.
So,
you know, if, if the moderators need, you know,
an administrator or anything like that, I'm there.
That is my role.
Indeed. Yes.
Glad to have you with us.
As always though.
I do like to emphasize, we don't need to worry too much about dead air.
We're not here necessarily to fill up every single second with questions.
Uh uh so much as make sure that you have a full 30 minutes
of
uh
moderators to bug once a week,
the availability of us if you'd like to ask questions.
Of course, I'm sure you covered this earlier.
But like you can head to the,
the thread in the office hours uh questions for just north of the community stage.
Here. We'll find a thread with moderation, office hours in today's date.
We're just collecting them in there. I'm gonna drop a link to that in the
uh
chat for the stage itself just in case folks are having a difficult time
navigating discords. Sometimes silly for
system.
I do see bridges
say again,
oh I was gonna say, did I say all that? I Yeah, sure, I did.
I definitely said all that, right guys.
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh We got a question
uh question for office hours.
Uh How you look at something like a Google
uh like at Google Analytics integration with resonate.
OK. Uh Like a world telemetry uh waypoints player progression. Of course,
uh user will be asked and prompted for URL permission. But isn't it uh
doesn't it violate some rule about spying?
Uh
And if,
and I, oh my gosh, sorry, I'm like
losing my uh
uh my window here. There we go.
And what if there will be made a
mechanism uh for collecting telemetry without user notification.
Uh So we don't currently have a guideline around collecting uh user data.
Uh But uh we do have one about, let's say doxing as in like sharing
uh that uh
oh
my God. I am not the green alien cat.
Well, we do have a,
a guideline for collecting
uh personal information. So
like it's, it's, it's mostly it's about like informed consent.
So uh if you're gonna be collecting information, but we,
we don't have that guideline
as far as I'm aware, I think that one was removed.
So it was
a
right now the general rule of thumbs,
I like to hand out when it comes to guidelines and,
or it comes to tracking users and how that might interact with,
say harassment or guidelines more broadly.
Uh is if you've informed the user,
we don't care at all.
Uh And if it's something that's present inside of
the
uh
the sorry, the log system that's already pulled from, from every single user,
every single session, you're never gonna run into a big issue there
as in terms of specifically guidelines written around data tracking.
No, I don't think we have one formally inside of the,
the guidelines of the stands right now though, on past platforms,
we had different standards
here. Again, those two rule of thumbs are going to cover you in 90% of scenarios.
If no one was coming along and declaring,
uh you were harassing them by not letting them know about this sort of stuff,
just inform people beforehand and you're perfectly fine.
You're not gonna run into any issues on that front.
And of course, I'd like to, to stress
everyone collects logs.
So anything that's pulled into logs is obviously
not going to be a significant problem.
Yep.
And the guideline that uh we do currently have
is called disclosure slash distribution of personal information,
which generally speaking more relates to doxing.
Uh Cyber frog goes on to clarify.
Uh Google analytics is not asking a user for if you want
to send us your data and it is still not doxing.
You have the ability of course to provide notification to users as
they're entering your world or engaging with any of these systems.
So that's, that's
generally where the rule of thumb is going to fly.
Uh I unfortunately will, will not quote the meme word
uh
that you have requested lower down. I'll pass that off to,
I'm gonna pass that on to Dante.
Dante doesn't want to say, I'm sorry, I'm not even, I,
I don't know what I'm supposed to say here.
You're not. We're being silly.
Cyber frog wants us to say something.
Thomas uh Steve 83 says sorry to bring, keep bringing up stuff like this.
But question on the subject of adult content and nudity
does an object that can be interpreted as a
reference for genitalia such as for comedic purposes,
count as adult content.
An example of banana fruit duct tapes to otherwise featureless scratch slash R.
Uh
We do allow generally speaking
uh parody to be perfectly fine under
guidelines unless this is explicitly highlighted.
Otherwise you can't, for instance, do parody when it comes to,
to uh intolerance or rather you're gonna run
into a big problem with parody around intolerance.
But when it comes to yes, just egg fruits and bananas.
Uh No, our, our definition when it comes to adult content is very explicit
and very narrow. It's not going to include comedic parody items.
The one way I think an individual could still get in
some sort of difficulty with the guidelines
as written around adult content would be,
of course,
that distinction we often make when it comes to discussing adult content,
which is sexualized actions,
uh You could still hypothetically get into
a some kind of sexualized activity making
use of an object that otherwise would not meet our description for genitalia.
And if you're doing that inside of a public world, yeah,
you've gone into the action side of the
writing rules and you're starting to violate guidelines.
I
think that is the politest way I can frame that.
If at any part of that was still opaque. I can be blunter as necessary
cyber fiveg phrases. Uh nudity in sects are the most frequent topics here.
Uh And the most interesting theme of the entirety of humanity. Of course.
Yeah.
No,
it's something that we're never going to grump at users for continuously
bringing up inside of office hours for a couple of reasons.
One, that's why we're here. We're here to get clarification.
We're here to give you direct feedback.
If ever you're uncertain about what we wrote,
we want to be able to give you a better clear answer.
Uh And secondly, we're not,
this is not a frequently asked questions in terms of
just pointing to someone else who brought it up previously.
We're happily to reiterate things.
This is a discussion,
new people come into the community and they
often have questions that old people did.
We want them to do a little bit of due diligence searching,
but we're always going to be fine with people just coming up to ask us.
It doesn't take too much out of our day.
And of course, I guess the last point, uh
I like when people ask about these, these guidelines,
when they're looking for clarity on it, it's often because
they want to make sure they're operating inside of the rules. That is
by far the most common thing.
I see people who want to comply,
who want to make sure they're doing things above board.
They come in here and ask for very frank answers in order to do so.
And we're happy to provide it
cyber frog. I was just gonna say that's kind of a dangerous game.
A piece of intent is certainly part of our evaluation. Sometimes.
That's it. Dramas.
Rain comes in saying I can't stop imagining two oranges and a
banana arranged in a peculiar way in a fruit basket somewhere.
And I think that is the,
the er example or perhaps emojis have moved us towards egg fruit.
But one of the examples of parody. It's a joke. It, no actual genitalia on display.
Yes. It, it brings up an idea but
nothing explicit is on display. No activity is occurring.
It is fine under the guidelines
going to a scroll all toward the top where we have a uh missed question. Uh Beer.
Could you do that? One
primes or? Y
yes, I did. Uh Dante answered three.
I'm uncertain.
I
have no idea.
I
mean definition at least one
because it can.
Right.
Oh Yeah. Sorry. I might at least try.
I had to scroll up to remember my answer was three.
Three. Seem good.
I just imagine everyone scrolling up now to see what,
what question we're talking about.
Uh Thomas Steve asks what about a texture that
contains nudity that has been censored by pixelation.
Uh If there is no discernible adult content in the image,
uh then it usually would be fine.
And I want to give you a blanket. Yes though because some images might be
harder to censor than others.
Yeah. We're not gonna give you a specific degree of pixelation necessary here.
It should not be clear in any capacity. You want to be 100% clear. Use black bars.
Yeah.
If you think it's all context like
anything you can use inappropriately
and that's when it becomes a problem.
Yeah,
like I'm just gonna put it this way if you are trying
to just run the line and possibly break rules.
You're probably gonna break the guidelines.
00, that's, yeah, that's immediately
bearable.
Yeah, you can't do that.
There's a sign that says don't walk on the grass.
Oh, yeah. Shadow X brings up a pretty big point here.
Don't censor in game with filter materials,
the texture will still be in everyone's cache.
That is indeed the case.
Uh,
if there is just a straight up uncensored asset that you are trying to
use other assets to censor that uncensored asset will be downloaded by people.
And that's a problem
that also brings up the point that sometimes these other assets
that are probably being used to uh censor this asset,
let's say like just a black bar mesh, right?
Uh If you're using that to cover up something that isn't supposed to be there,
uh That asset is still being downloaded to people's computers.
The Black Bar asset might not load in time
uh to do its job, et cetera. There's just a bunch of problems there.
Uh Whip brings up a good point too. Yep.
That would count as distribution which in public
sessions can count as distribution to minors.
Absolutely
minors, people who are not consented to seeing that content, et cetera.
Uh
OK. You know what,
uh this is like a more technical question,
not moderation related in the current main branch.
Does concurrent asset downloads do anything when changed?
I've changed it from 4 to 16 with no noticeable effect.
I almost fear Dante pulls
something out.
I can, I can't answer that. So, go, Dante, we're, we're not supposed to.
I wanna do a disclaimer that like this is the
moderation office hours and that's probably better for like primes.
But
concurrent asset downloads
controls how, how many assets you are going to
uh uh uh distribute to users of your session at one time.
So, so it only has effect when you are the host.
If, if you're in someone else's session, it has no effect at all.
But if, but if you are the host and you set concurrent asset downloads to say,
you know, eight, that means you're gonna be distributing
uh eight assets to people at a time concurrently.
It does, it does speed up distributing things to uh users when they're local.
So if it's like a cloud, if it's a cloud asset, some like say something
on
inventory, it has, it doesn't have much effect. But if it's a local one,
you know, say like an image that you've brought into a session from your computer,
then uh it speeds it up.
I know. Hopefully that wasn't too uh too confusing.
Yes.
And of course,
we always do like to encourage check out the probable
primes office hours on Tuesday for more technically minded questions.
We'll give our best. But there, there are other resources you can look into as well.
Uh Cyber Frog asks why not just ban minors then
as a response to the various problems with miners.
I think the answer is really come down to two things.
First and foremost, we don't want to, we'd like to keep miners on the platform,
allow them to play the game
uh If we can and certainly we can structure guidelines
in a way that allows them to exist here.
And two as I think it was covered by someone just below. Yes whip.
Uh This doesn't cover everything even if there
were no minors on the platform whatsoever.
We'd still be very intent upon making sure
adult content is controlled in some capacity.
And that all the people who view it
consented to view it,
it doesn't fix things and it just removes a chunk of our population.
Indeed,
just a third point we largely also have,
right? Like it's only 16 and up at this point.
Uh But even then, like,
we don't really necessarily want to limit like 16 and
up users from accessing the platform at that point.
It's just a little bit overkill. It's doesn't solve. Uh
We have a use for, for uh like say, you know,
students or uh people coming in here for education reasons
to uh be on the platform. So we, we wanna allow them down to that range.
Yeah, though at
that point, they would also be on their own separate uh
instance of resonate and uh not necessarily uh accessing everything.
Um
uh huh
Did you apparently can't hear us again?
I'm unsure what to do there.
Yeah, I would say like, try, right.
Clicking on some things like the office hour stage.
Oh, well, I'm saying this, they can't hear me
and I'm not anywhere near a keyboard.
Cyber frog asks,
uh, what if just make something like NSFW tags, uh,
to avatars and turn off avatar rendering by default.
And if someone wants NSFW,
then it will be shown a check box or something.
Uh, largely a little bit of a simplification of the issue.
However, uh tagging like that is planned in the future,
we certainly want to be able to provide users with better uh
systems coming down the line though,
we're not going to be able to off the top of our heads
riff what those systems are likely to look
like in their full completed state.
Uh If you're interested in that,
I would recommend heading over to the github where
you'll be able to find a number of issues around
things like hard permissions and content tagging already stood
up and looking for a little bit of feedback.
Broadly speaking,
we as moderators are interested in providing you as many tools as
possible to curate your user experience to the greatest degree you can.
And yeah, no content tagging is likely to be part of that.
Uh Draconis brings up a point uh from personal experience.
People are too lazy to even tag NSFW as N as NSFW.
Uh so that could come uh with problems for that user in the future.
If we do have a tagging system and we have requirements uh from
a guidelines perspective that one should be properly tagging their materials as uh
NSFW.
Uh
And they don't do so, they'll be hearing from us.
Have it not safe for work by default.
That's funny.
Also, I do wanna like, I,
I've been like seeing and reading out loud NSFW or not safe for work.
But uh I do just wanna reiterate that it is not the language we're gonna be using ever
uh because it's just so subjective and changes between different people.
Uh OSHA has a very different uh understanding of something that is not
safe for work versus what the average internet user has for instance.
But uh
we'll be using the term adult content. I I'm not sure if I'm totally correct.
I don't think not safe work is actually mentioned anywhere in the guidelines. Uh
It isn't, we would never use that term adult content.
Indeed. We, we changed the, the language over the time.
I said we have a question from hyper
saying would hard permissions and tagging,
create a tagging slash permissions tool.
I'm uncertain what you mean by a tool in this capacity,
but it's certainly hoping to provide more options
to both session hosts and users navigating
uh the platform too. Yeah.
As I, as I tend to go back to curate the user experience,
make sure that they're only seeing an engagement
with the sort of material that they want to
hard permissions.
More specifically,
we tend to view from the perspective or think of
from the perspective of the host being able to curate exactly
what people can do to a fine grain inside
of their session at a variety of different levels.
Epic Eastern uh states, I think adult content falls into a similar blanket of uh,
oh, I just lost it of subjectivity as not safe for work.
Yes and no. But uh there is no like
question of legality as far as like what is considered adult
content in a lot of cases versus not safe for work,
not safe for work is something that could just get you fired.
Right?
Watching a video of people chilling out at a beach with
all their clothes on could be not safe for work because you're
gonna get fired for looking at your phone while you're working.
Right?
It's just a little bit too subjective.
Cyber frog asks, we're gonna find the link to office hours,
voiced text transcriptions.
Those don't exist for moderation. We provide, of course, the office hours itself.
You're welcome to come here,
ask questions and listen in and recordings that are posted both
to dis this discord and Probable primes office hours archive.
If you don't know where that is, you can find links to it on the wiki.
And I believe it's regularly posted
in the uh office hours general channel.
Of course, you're more than welcome to take any of those, uh,
recordings and shove them into a transcription software.
But, uh,
we just provide the recordings and the office hours themselves as it stands.
I just wanna say there's
that when we have, when we have the content tagging,
we will definitely have tools that make it easy to tag content.
Oh, certainly. Uh, what I was gonna say in response to what Hyper Zen
said there is uh
hyper Zen states like a tool that adds tags without having
to find the root of an object in the inspector.
Absolutely. Probably
uh I would fight for uh let's say mesh objects uh to be uploaded.
Uh It would include a check box for uh is this object not safe for? Yeah. Oh my God.
Is this object adult content?
You know, that's uh that's something I would like to see.
Just make it as easy as possible for you to tag things appropriately.
That would be my biggest ask uh for those uh tool sets to come out.
Yes. At this, at this stage, when
hiding away from providing details on how any of this might look lest we get
uh unless we make promises that the DEV team
gives us funny looks for later down the line.
Suffice to say there, there are a number of goals we want to achieve with it.
And we do encourage you to go to the github to make suggestions,
things you would really like to see with the systems.
So the DEV team can both engage with you directly
uh and on things that might be more or perhaps less practical to implement.
Uh And then alternatives that might be, be,
might be employed if something impractical was suggested,
uh
rather than just bouncing it off us.
We're,
we're the moderation team and while we're certainly part of the de is more broadly,
we're not going to be implementing it directly.
Yep. And I did link the actual
github issue for content tagging. And uh if anyone
wants to make a suggestion,
please,
before you do go through and look at it
because a lot of people have made suggestions and you
can see if uh yours is in there or if you have anything you want to add on.
Yeah.
And remember, I did also say I promised to ask not that I promise it will be there.
Cyber
frog asks,
does the picture of a person working with taxes count as adult content barring
exceedingly broad definitions of working with taxes.
Uh No, that should not be a problem.
It could be considered not safe for work
though if uh he's not doing his taxes properly
and he's also in the workplace.
We are, wow.
I was just about to say we're rapidly approaching the end of the office hours,
but I think we've already kind of hit it.
Uh
I'm gonna let Draconis uh finish typing if you've got a question for us.
But then I think we can go ahead and call it here.
As always, I like to remind people at this stage that we will be back next week.
Same channel, same time
we do have a question whip says currently
the guideline states sexual explicit content activity including
kink or fetish related activity is only permitted
in sessions that fit the following listed criteria.
And they give the criteria.
Will this definition be updated to include kink or fetish related content?
If it's very overly clearly meant for sexual purposes?
Do you mean with the changes coming down the line as it relates to
Steam or just whether you're asking to include that as part of it?
You said steam,
uh
it's just
given the nature of the question is, will this definition be updated?
I'm asking whip if they mean this is due to the, if they're asking,
is this going to be updated due to the changes for Steam or are you just interested in
that as a broader change for the guidelines
to include anything very clearly meant for sexual purposes?
When you say changes for Steam? Do you mean the like the steam hub content?
Yes.
OK.
Asking if kink or fetish related content will be
included in the guideline for session access rules.
Oh,
no.
The reason I bring up steam right now is because part
of the guidelines coming down for Steam content included a mention
of things uh intended for sexual gratification
uh
explicitly as part of that,
we were not bringing that language to the broader guideline.
Steam was adopting a higher standard than we intended to employ on the platform.
And we weren't looking to try and make the sexual gratification
assessment on platform.
Right now.
Again, we're,
we got a narrow definition of what counts
as adult content in terms of genitalia pornography.
You can, you can read that
and then we have uh a piece relating to sexualized activity.
And those are the two things that underpin adult content on platform.
Let's see.
Uh Shadow X has a uh a statement here.
I don't like the idea of localized content, visibility based on content tacking,
the idea that someone you're talking to might
appear as an adult avatar to other people.
It seems like something that might keep people off the platform.
So this likely I,
I can't make any promises to how this would all
work and look uh when it is all implemented.
But uh assuming at some point, we have something like content tagging
uh and advance permissions and whatnot uh as well as like
uh let's say age verification or something
uh down the line. Uh that
if you are
uncomfortable with that kind of content,
you are likely not going to be in a world that has it at all.
Uh Let's say like uh this would be required,
uh it would be required to have an adult world
to have adult content appear in that world at all.
Something uh similar to that. I'm not sure how it's gonna look.
That's how I'd request. It would look,
uh, that, uh, if there is, uh, let's say if the world is set to like PG or something,
uh
However, we choose to word the uh language around that,
uh,
you would not be able to bring anything tagged as NSFW in that world
regardless of what everyone else's uh white
list or blacklist tags are looking like.
Again,
we could have a very big discussion on how
the tagging system would look at this stage.
We're,
we're not prepared to present to even a first
draft if you want to collect feedback for it.
Again, we, we recommend the github uh
for both suggestions and how it could look and
raising concerns for how it could be an issue.
Uh Draconis
Rena says could
hide this user avatar, get a small update in the future.
It doesn't block avatar,
it doesn't block Avatar sounds like one would think it should.
Uh if you'd like to have changes to current features.
Uh Again
github for future requests down the line, the feedback we always take in,
you can pass on to the DEV team.
But if you want to actually be track
recorded and brought to the DEV team's attention,
just uh using the github
is more effective than, than talking to us necessarily.
So that also does sound like a bug,
I think uh the intended reaction is that it would disable
most things on the avatar, including its visibility.
Ok.
Oh,
so, uh what Draconis
is talking about is uh when you block someone's avatar from visibility,
uh
like if you go in the contacts and uh you select like uh block avatar, probably
it doesn't cut in the sounds associated. I follow now. Ok.
Well, yeah, again,
that also be something we generally recommend bringing to the github.
If it, if it's a book,
if they tell you, it's not a bug, I mean, I'll certainly, uh,
leave that to the DEV team on
github, but you can certainly,
you can then file it as a feature request that there either be a separate
toggle that gets rid of those sounds or uh change to the block system.
Remember when people tell you it's not, it's not a bug.
They're not looking to just shut it down.
They're, they're looking to organize over there.
All right,
we're gonna go ahead and finish up the current questions that are already written.
Uh,
and we're gonna stop at where Dante is, uh, has stated. This is case by case. Uh,
let's see here.
Yeah, I'm gonna drop that into voice just in case anyone is listening, whip, asked.
So content that is,
uh, not used sexually but is relating to a sexual kinks slash f
fetish is allowed in public sessions on the platform.
Uh And as Dante said, clearly isn't clear, say someone is wearing a collar,
it could or could not be allowed based on context.
And yeah, that's,
that's the case if you were just standing inertly in
something that could be related to a kink or fetish,
not doing any sort of activity.
And the thing you're wearing doesn't also trigger our
guidelines relating to genitalia or uh pornographic material then
yeah, that should be fine in public sessions
unless the context introduces one of those elements.
Let's see. Do we have any more questions leading up to what Dante clarified there?
Some discussion about bugs.
Cyber Frog asks, uh does sex audio count as adult content?
Oh, yeah,
audio content that contains adult content inside of it could potentially hit our
guidelines on adult content to be careful with that sort of material.
And panda got a clarification on Dante's
previous point saying let's give two examples.
Someone who has a chubby slash fat avatar,
this is fine as chubby slash fat avatars are fine.
And two someone that looks clearly like the girl from Willy Wonka.
Knowing someone's past context is not fine.
I
can't, I can't respond to that. That's, that's so oddly specific.
I have no idea what they're talking about.
I Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm missing that reference.
Neither of those cases are going to be violating our guidelines alone.
Again, we, we have
concrete but narrow definitions about things that are
going to trip the guidelines regardless of activity
I'm going to drop them in chat and read them aloud.
Uh,
adult content is content that should not be excess shown
to otherwise distributed to anyone under the age of 18.
Content of this type is any content that is
or contains genitalia sexually explicit avatars or objects,
pornography or any sexually explicit activity.
We then go on to further reiterate the sexual activity point following that.
But that's our narrow definition for what counts
if you're doing nothing but standing there as nonetheless adult content.
If it doesn't fit into that definition and there's no activity whatsoever,
no context that could make us assume sexualized activity occurring,
then you should be fine.
It, it's all about context.
Like people are posting little screenshots of Willy Walka.
If you recreated Willy Wonka
in resonate
as a recreation of Willy Walka,
then no, it's not
actually, it's not sexual content. But
uh
yeah, it just depends on what you do with it.
Yeah, it's, it comes down to like, what is the person doing? What are they saying?
You know,
uh
like are they moaning, begging,
uh et cetera? You know, like, yeah, that's inappropriate.
Uh If they're just standing there like just being a fellow,
whatever,
if you don't like their avatar.
Uh and that bothers you the way that they look
and it does not have any adult content on it.
That's what the block avatar function uh does. And that's what that's there for.
It's for you
and do remember as we like to iterate,
uh
you have the ability right now to set session guidelines above and beyond
the resonate usage guidelines,
you can ask any number of things to not exist inside of a world you're hosting.
And if any user comes in and ignores that you the tools
to remove and ban them and if it becomes a persistent problem,
you can reach out to us and we'll assist further.
I'm just gonna uh say this is the last question
we're gonna be answering here is uh Epic Easton's question.
Uh And then we're gonna go ahead and call it because we're 10 minutes past
uh heat
does an avatar need to be classified as an adult content?
I've definitely felt uncomfortable in public sessions before because of it.
So it's not going to hit a threshold where it becomes
adult content until the other things that we've mentioned uh happen,
like it becomes inappropriate at
that point.
I'd say it would sooner hit a threshold for harassment because that
person might be wearing an avatar that's blocking other people's ability to see
or function,
right?
Like that would, it would hit that threshold before it would hit adult content,
which there is not currently a threshold for
unless it hits, you know, those other topics like, you know,
just what is the person doing?
Are they acting inappropriately
just a also a public service announcement? Like in addition to
uh self
moderation, you can
always submit a, uh, moderation report
at, you know, moderation.re.com
if you have any questions about anything.
All right, folks, uh, since we're a minute past, uh,
where I said the next cut off time was we're gonna go ahead and, uh, cut it off here.
Uh And, uh, you guys have a wonderful rest of your week. Thank you for joining us.
Yes, again, thank you all for the questions. It was a lively discussion today.
Once things got rolling,
I hope you all have a fantastic weekend ahead week that follows. See you next week.
Catch you guys later.