OK.
Uh Can everyone hear me? Am I coming through?
Ok.
Uh We'll give everyone a few minutes to filter in.
I apologize for being a little bit late today.
Uh I had some other stuff that I needed to tend to.
All right,
we'll get started. Um
Let's see, let's give it 5:07 p.m.
Feel free to go ahead and start posting questions
in the following
thread.
I just put in chat.
Um
But yeah,
yeah,
guess while we wait for people to filter in,
I'll take care of at least a couple of housekeeping items.
Um
mm
Anyways. Uh yeah, so um
first of all, a bit of an update on current on the current state of priorities.
Um
Right now LVLC has been a little bit de prioritized so I can focus on a um
a couple of other things that are currently outstanding, notably
getting the A LXR stuff
up to date. Uh That's currently just awaiting review from fruits.
Uh This will give you guys
uh native eye and face tracking with the Quest Pro
uh considering some Os C stuff.
But if we end up doing Os C, we don't want to do it just for
uh I and face tracking, we want to do it in such a way that you could have, for example,
a touch OS C panel on a tablet device or something like that,
uh controlling different elements inside of a world. So
uh currently trying to figure that one out,
uh it's not super high priority over other things but just something
that's kind of in the back of my mind right now.
Uh What else? What else?
Uh There's
increased, um There's increased priority being put behind sauce at this point.
Um As a reminder for anyone who's new
sauce is the name of the new rendering engine, it's code name for now,
we'll figure out a proper name later.
Um So that's proceeding at this point in time.
We had a little bit of a shake up uh internally on the sauce team
to kind of uh unblock a few people.
Um So we're trying to get that moving along. Um
So trying to get from
one year
in change uh down to less than a year in change of as far as um
actually shipping that um
that will also bring with it. A
vastly upgraded version of.net uh will be on.net eight at that point,
which brings a lot of uh performance improvements.
Um That's not to say you're gonna have to,
you guys are gonna have to wait for performance.
Uh There's some interim steps that we're going to be uh uh
deploying between now and then
this is just yet another optimization that'll apply.
Uh Also
just trying to figure out how we're gonna handle the LIB VLC side of things on Linux.
Uh the official integration that they
uh that they provide does not support Linux. So
some solution needs to be uh had there.
Uh I have given some
um I think some thought into just going directly for FFM PEG
that helps us out a lot.
Uh and other places down the road as well such as
encoding videos directly within the platform and stuff like that.
So,
uh
so yeah,
bunch of things that uh that are currently in motion right now.
Um But yeah,
OK. Uh It is now eight past the hour, we'll go ahead and get started with questions.
Um Let's see a question from uh from Zyl.
Uh Hey
Gins, I was trying to, I was trying some frame profiling with resin
and render doc slash NVIDIA insight. Well, I noticed that I wasn't seeing any
draw, indexed instance, calls recorded. This was particularly
even in cases where I'd expect GP U in
instancing to be taking effect
where I did see them previously with Neos
all this up in a github
issue.
Uh And I'd be very interested to hear your take. Thanks.
Um
So, uh that's, it's, it's a weird one.
We haven't actually changed much of anything in that regard.
Um So it should just be working
Um,
but I'll go ahead and take a look at that.
Um, GP U instancing is something, it's, it's kind of on the list of things that
needs, uh, some work anyways right now.
Um,
kind of need to go through and add more components and
stuff like that that you can use to better leverage instancing.
Um,
it's entirely possible that something broke along the way,
but it should be all right.
Um, we'll see. Um I'll go through and take a look at it though. Thank you for the github
issue.
Uh Let's see. Next up Easton Ask Sauce update. Yep.
Uh Sauce is getting more development love.
Uh Right now,
we're actually in the process of kind
of compiling different resources into specific objects um
that can like go through and just throw over the C# barrier and whatnot.
In addition,
we're going through and working on a bunch of uh resource management stuff as well.
Lots of things in flux for that one.
Um
We're hoping uh what I'm hoping to do in terms of
the road map here and don't take this as a promise,
but we'll see how it all shakes out.
What I'm hoping to do here
is
in a few months, be able to actually go through and cut an open source uh repo of that.
So people can actually start contributing uh more broadly and
actually see kind of like what's going on there.
Uh This will not be the uh initial integration
into resonate. But this is actually going to be
a um this is just going to be kind of like, OK, this is where we're at,
feel free to contribute if you'd like to contribute,
otherwise you can just kind of see us build things out um as they land.
Um
some interesting tidbits,
I guess uh resource management are trying to make that somewhat
automatic on the sauce side with hints being provided to it
as far as like resource uh streaming, stuff like that.
Texture streaming is a thing that I wanna have native to sauce as well.
Um And I've kind of sort of been looking at some light mappers lately,
but we'll see how that really shakes out a
bunch of different uh potential options for that.
Uh We need to go through and uh review those closer to sauce's launch though. So
stay tuned.
Uh Ozzy asked how's the unity update going along?
Still having issues with the post processing stack? Yes.
Um So that's a really weird problem.
Uh Originally,
we thought that was just like the bloom chatter is just broken for some reason,
but it's actually just the post process stack.
Uh generally whenever you upgrade past unity 20 19.4 0.19.
Um
So like even if you just bump it to like a 0.20
everything just breaks in VR
but only when you start NVR.
Uh It also only happens with a single pass with um
single pass with the, the deferred renderer.
If you do just like straight up um
multi pass uh rendering it, it doesn't break things but performance is,
is uh lowered a bit.
Uh It's not by much but, you know, given that we're
getting pretty sensitive to performance issues at this point in time, you know,
kind of need to uh be conscious of that.
Uh We're probably gonna have a review
in the near future to decide. Ok.
Is this really like,
is this something that we can accept in terms of a performance dip?
So we can also fix uh other potential race conditions bugs, et cetera.
Um
I'll also say that switching to multi pas uh actually helps us kind of upgrade to a
to newer to even newer versions of uh
unity that still support the legacy deferred pipeline.
Um
So we'll have to, we'll have to see uh what some possibilities there would be as well.
Um But yeah,
lots of stuff under review for that one.
more than just a couple of problems. Uh So trying to figure it out.
Um,
Shfr underscore H um, asks hi, just wondering if there might be any update on arrow,
eye tracking,
not a priority right now, I'm afraid. Um, and also my
Faro arrow is currently broken,
so actually tried to boot it up the other day and uh when the displays is out,
apparently so.
Yeah,
sorry. No, uh no updates on that. Other than we just haven't prioritized it yet.
Uh Game, the cup dog asks,
are we gonna be able to see some screenshots of debug scenes when they come around?
Yes, yes, you will,
will be uh will be providing those um as they come along.
Um
Epic Easton commented a degradation of performance at this stage will
make the game even more un playable than it already is.
Um It's actually
like the degrade, the performance degradation isn't
really that awful.
It is somewhat noticeable,
but
it's not as bad as you might a as as
it sounds necessarily like we're talking like a couple frames um
here and there.
Um But, you know, it's still something that people probably notice.
So, you know, it's something that we're taking,
we're weighing very seriously right now as to if we're going to a
a as to if this is actually something that we can accept,
um more information will be forthcoming as I, you know, kind of
do some more tests and get uh more solid profiling data.
Ozy asks despite that, are we going to see the new anti
aying? You've been teasing?
Uh Actually,
that's pretty doable today with the current version of unity that we're
pretty much stuck on.
Um
I can go,
we can go through and just go ahead and ship
that uh at some point in the relatively near future.
Um
Having tested in the uh in, in, in VR,
it's actually pretty all right.
Uh There's not really a whole lot of swimming,
which is kind of a problem that you get with a lot of temporal uh anti
Laing uh techniques out there.
Uh Granted, we do have to,
we did have to tweak and tune it a lot to
remove a lot of the like the pixel swimming effect.
Um So yeah,
um we can probably get that shipped.
Um So swimming refers to this effect.
Um Like I if,
if you've looked at like a lot of modern
games with like really cranked up to pearl anti
aliasing,
you'll notice that like
it, it has this almost motion blur like effect, but it's not really motion blur.
Um It's kind of like this whole like III I just,
I would describe it as a sort of pixel swimming
effect whenever you move around and look around really fast,
you'll just notice that like
there's this weird lag for different pixels and what not.
Like there's this sort of weird actor image and
it just kind of catches up over the and like
things just kind of catch up as you stand still
um or other things in the scene stand still. That is.
Um
So we kind of have to like go through and tweak
and tune a lot of things in order to reduce that.
Obviously,
if you uh put a VR headset on and you notice these sorts of
things kind of makes you a little bit nauseous a little bit queasy.
Um So it's just something we have to tweak in tune to make it actually work well.
Uh CYO
S
uh asks, given,
given how good S MA A um
is, have you thought about just doing or finding a simple
implementation of that one?
I've currently been supplementing S MA A via Reshad
and in a lot of cases,
it looks very good and the luma detection catches the areas
that matter and provides results that approach an SA A.
Um
that's a tricky one.
We do have S MA A in the post processing stack but doesn't really like VR um
probably tweak it and tune it a bit.
Um But yeah, we're trying to go through and keep any effort
in the unity side of things to an absolute minimum right now.
Uh This is just to kind of not distract from other things that are on my plate.
So like, you know, sauce obviously is kind of a big deal
and we're trying to actually get that into a functional and work workable state.
Um
And uh then of course, there's things like LEVI
C and all that other good stuff as well and
uh the 3D texture uh prof color profiles as well.
So
yeah,
um we'll see uh TA A is probably going to be what you get.
Uh And we're not using CTA A. Um We, we, we are very much not using CTA A.
Um
But uh ta a just the built in unity stuff.
Uh After you tweak it a bit actually looks pretty good and doesn't have the artifact
as much.
Uh Modern asks why is MS A a impossible?
Well,
so this is a fun one and I'm gonna try to bridge it as best as I possibly can.
Um
So
in deferred rendering,
you render all of your objects into something called a geometry buffer.
Um
Now
trying to do MS A a on this buffer,
it's kind of a crapshoot.
Um You can do something called a custom resolve,
but custom resolves are kind of slow,
kind of icky.
Um
So, you know, we're not gonna do that, obviously, um it's just generally slow.
Um
So we kind of miss out on the MS A A stuff uh as a result of this
a forward renderer,
it's much easier to do MS A a very performantly um just utilizing, you know,
hardware sampling and all that stuff without having to jump
into like shader based customer resolves or anything like that.
Um So the uh solution to this is to use something like a post process anti
aliasing um algorithm.
So that's uh pretty much the reason why we, we don't really do MS A A,
it's just performance kind of sucks for this sort of thing.
Uh deferred renderers just aren't super, super compatible with it.
Uh Once we get over to sauce and we're doing like tiled rendering and stuff
that becomes a little bit more doable.
Um,
so chances are what we have today and what we will
have like in the next few weeks or what have you,
that's going to be, it's not gonna be what we end up living with long term.
So,
yep.
Ozy
asks,
um, I know sauce is being worked on, but I'm curious from my understanding,
we rely on unity particles and if we were to switch,
we would lose that the basic particles we have are kind of iffy.
So uh does that mean sauce will give, give, get its own part,
its own particles or is that more on the Fruits Engine side of things?
Uh It's,
it's a dependency definitely that I'm think it's kind of
like at the back of my mind right now,
uh particles always just kind of suck
when it comes down to implementing them.
Um What we may end up doing between now and sauce is
actually just write our own particle renderer in Fruits Engine more or less
uh just to make it uh the effort a little bit easier.
Obviously,
there would have to be some stuff on the
Unity Engine side of things to facilitate that.
Um But we'll see what, what what we can do here.
Um It is a bit of an iffy compatibility problem that we need to solve
at some point along with a couple of other things as well that are very
um unity specific uh in terms of some of
extensions behaviors. So
yeah, GP particles maybe we'll see. Um
so not all particles really make sense uh being on the GP U but certainly
going through and having GP U particles is definitely a thing I want to do
not to mention just
um if you've ever looked
at aerial engines, Niagara uh particle system or effects system,
like I would love to have something like that
inside of uh Frusen engine at some point.
But you know, th those are more implementation details,
we have to figure out along uh down the road.
OK. Let's see.
Keep those questions coming. Everyone
game. The cup dog asks. So with custom shader, will we be able to do compute shader?
Yes, yes, you will.
Uh you'll be able to go through and sub compute shader uh output buffers.
Um send those back to the CPU and code things pretty much the whole nine yards.
Uh We want the custom shader uh system to be
very flexible,
CYO
asks,
um I remember you talking in world about light baking a while ago and
how spherical harmonics are somewhat less optimal
than something else you had in mind.
If not spherical harmonics,
then what was the method you were hoping to use for volumetric
baked uh G I approximations?
So
this is a really fun subject.
Uh one that I have kept an eye on for the
past 16 years that I've been doing this sort of thing.
Um
You know,
the holy grail of any kind of um of any kind of
graphics pipeline is real time or pseudo real time global illumination.
Um
And we actually have enough computing hardware nowadays
that we can actually make that happen.
Um
pretty reasonably.
Um There's a few different techniques we can
look at uh spherical harmonics kind of sucks because
you do get light leakage and you have
to oftentimes window the results which you know,
is sub optimal for a lot of reasons.
Um There's spherical Gaussian which are pretty cool. Um They're pretty neat.
They work pretty well for diffuse uh for
diffused lighting and some specular lighting as well.
Um
A little bit less flexible. Uh The basis is pretty fixed with spherical Gauss.
Uh
No one's really gotten around that problem yet.
Um And there just hasn't really been a ton
of research around spherical Gaussian's in recent years.
There's only like a couple of games that have shipped using it.
Um
They look really good though, they look really, really good.
Um So a another way you can do it though
um that we call it ambient cubes. Uh This is something that uh half
life
two uses or source uses a lot.
Um For a lot of scenes,
it's not quite as accurate as, you know, if you were to compare it to a ground truth,
it wouldn't be quite as accurate as you would like.
Um
But it's very artist friendly, like obscenely artist friendly.
And we can actually just kind of do real
time convolutions of those pretty easily as well.
Uh You,
we could actually go through and just reuse the existing
reflection probe data for that sort of thing as well.
So, you know, even better.
So
that's kind of where I'm leaning right now
is just using the Ambient cu cubes approach.
Uh We can go through and load those up into basically
a bunch of cube map arrays and just make that work.
Basically,
let's see,
Ozs with the year coming to a close.
Are we going to get a summary of this year and plans for next year?
Um
I don't know, actually,
you know, it, that'd probably be a better chroma question.
I can actually bring that up during this week's team meeting.
Uh and see if that's something we would like to do.
I think it's kind of a nice thing.
And honestly, I'd love to see like a return of the monthly recap streams as well.
Uh We had been talking about making the monthly recap streams be
kind of where we also have the business office hours. Uh Because right now, like
you have like
prime myself, uh Katie
Git
Veer
Dante and like, you know, we, we all have like
our specified office hours.
Um and we're all parts of the business team,
well, even chrome chroma as well,
but
we don't really have a business office hours either.
Um, so, you know,
being able to do that as part of like the monthly recap streams and being able to
even do that during like a yearly recap or something like that,
that I think that'd be hella useful here.
So I'll bring it up. We'll see what we can do.
Uh, modern asks on the topic of sauce and unity stencils.
I wonder how hard it'd be to, like, make that stuff transfer over correctly.
Not that hard, really. Um Stencil buffers are pretty rudimentary. Um
It wouldn't be terribly difficult to make that uh transfer over
specs asks uh tossing out a straight thought but sauce is built on W GP U.
Does that also create the potential for a fruit
engine client that can run in a browser or at the very
least a different project using Sauce could run in a browser actually.
Yes. Uh This is we, we don't really,
we haven't really put too much thought to this
but something we want to explore at some point when it makes sense
uh because like bear in mind like, you know, a AAA big thing for us longer term
is also being able to enable you guys
to just publish stand alone experiences as well.
So being able to support web browsers as a deployment target,
I think would be a very, very
big thing for us.
Modern asks um I believe this was asked on the
github at some point,
but I remember you talking about material airing in the future?
How would something like that work for displacement shares
complicated
is the answer to that.
Um
We can, there, there's ways to make it work.
We'd probably end up moving over to a compute driven um geometry pipeline for that.
Um Before we go through and actually ship uh the uh the material errors,
which is something we're gonna be doing inside sauce anyways.
So that kind of creates AAA good alignment point there.
Um So yeah,
uh we would just go through and just compute
all the displacements and tessellations and other geometry effects
uh separate and then go through and just feed
that into uh basically a stack of pixel shader
game. The cup dog asks, what will the PBS
refactor bring in terms of features?
So that's a fun one.
It's not as much that it would bring new features,
it just be more normalization of features across all the PBS variants,
like really what we want to do
is make it. So you only have like two PBS uh variants on hand.
You got
specular,
you got metallic and then everything else just
kind of becomes options that can pile onto it
similar in concept to material laying but just very PBS focused at that point.
So like one good example here would be
making
a double sided support work for pretty much every
kind of PBS combination that you could go for.
Now, remember guys, you can ask me more than just graphics
related questions. Uh Things about
the business of things is also acceptable.
Pretty much anything that I work on in the company
game. The cup dog asks, when should we expect a new build to come out?
Uh Pretty much whenever fruits cuts, it
don't really have any,
any information beyond that.
Uh For
pop
asked, governance thoughts. Well, first of all, what about governance?
Because governance is a very loaded phrase,
Epic Easton asks, are you allowed to disclose cloud costs?
Uh No, not really, but we do want to go through and be
uh more transparent about costs for the company and stuff like that.
Uh One thing we eventually want to do is do like a breakdown
of like, OK, this is how much uh our infrastructure costs are,
this is how much we spend
on salary. Uh This is how much we spend
on um purchasing hardware uh for development and stuff like that.
Uh Sales marketing the whole nine yards.
Uh We, we, we want to be able to provide you guys with basically a pie chart
showing these things on a somewhat regular basis.
Oz asked,
have you guys been getting offers and generally
working with col colleges and similar educational groups?
Yes, actually, we have um and we are currently working with uh a couple at this point.
I can't really disclose any
specifics beyond that,
but we are working with uh colleges and educational groups and whatnot.
Modern ask. Are you guys still deciding what to do in terms of what's next?
Uh We're always doing that.
Um We're always deciding what we're gonna do. Uh do, do next.
Uh I can tell you right now, the big priorities are
uh well, first of all, getting our continuous integration pipeline working. Uh
Well, so we can do fully automated builds.
Uh We're actually working on code signing for that as well.
Um
And then of course, the settings re rework.
Uh Then after that, uh at least to my understanding right now,
um
IK should be coming after the settings rework.
Um
I'm hoping we can get more performance oriented work on the table
uh here pretty soon though. Uh since, you know,
you shouldn't have to go out and buy like a,
you know,
3D VC enabled CPU like a 5800 X 3d or 7800 X 3D just to run the game at a good um
at a, at a good frame rate. So,
um we, we definitely want to go through and uh follow up on these topics.
That's a big reason why sauce is getting more priority right now. So we can
uh try to get a more dram dramatic
uh performance bump uh pushed out there. So,
and to be clear void,
Paul uh as far as your governance thoughts question uh for more specific questions,
um like I said, governance is a very
big and broad topic,
uh everything from how we go through and uh handle our legal processes to how we
uh decide
who gets paid and how much they get paid. Like that's, that's a
really, really big
thing.
So come up with more specific questions,
I'll be more than happy to answer to answer them.
Uh Bismarck asks anything you guys can tell us
about the road to better performance on the platform.
Well, having just talked about it,
um Sauce would be a big one.
Um Just because like
we get off of a super decrepit
version of mono.
Um And we get to move over to a much
more modern and much better performing version of.net specifically.
We're looking to ship with.net eight where it comes down to Sauce.
Um That'll actually solve a lot of problems
that we currently have um inside of resonate
and Fruits Engine more broadly.
Um uh the new data model stuff,
the data model rework as we call it uh would also help out a lot as well.
Uh That's really just more gearing up to do
things more performant and more performantly in other places, like for example,
uh switching over to a modern ECs pattern
uh and stuff like that um would would be a massive boon here.
Uh Let's see here. What else in terms of the road to better performance uh
occlusion culling is something that I want to work on at some point.
Uh Just kind of, you know, make it so that you can set up a world
and, you know, you don't have to worry about doing your own culling or what have you.
It just kind of works.
Um Potentially even having uh prec calculated potential visibility sets
is a thing that I want to eventually add in uh down the road.
Um So yeah, there's,
there's a lot of things that we can work on in terms of performance.
It's a very big subject with lots of little tiny itsy bitsy steps in between.
Uh It's something we're actively thinking about uh pretty
much on a daily basis at this point.
Uh Especially since we do eventually want to get to stand alone support,
like stand alone headset support.
And that's just not really super feasible right now.
Uh Another one that,
that I've been thinking about recently is texture streaming as well.
Uh So, you know,
someone,
someone trying to go through and have a K textures on everything on their avatar.
OK. That's cool.
We're just gonna stream in the lower resolution
version of that based upon user settings.
So
yeah, just, just kind of an idea of what we're working on in this regard.
Uh Specs asks, considering the desire for stand-alone experiences,
has the team considered being the publisher for stand-alone experiences.
For example,
the content team makes a puzzle game that
gets a stand-alone release on Steam or partnering,
partnering with developers or community members to publish
and sell stand alone content and share in the sales.
We haven't really thought about that from a third party perspective.
I mean, obviously for like, you know,
some of the stuff that uh the content team has built, um,
you know,
it'd be kind of cool if we could go through and
ship some of those things as stand alone experiences on steam,
for example,
uh as a more first party thing,
but third party, I'm not 110%
sure
about like we'd have to discuss it.
I don't think it's a bad idea.
It's just a complicated one really uh where
you are positioning yourself as a publisher.
OK. F
asks,
I know that I've heard this said a couple times before for some people on the team,
but nothing really in specifics with these upcoming performance tweaks.
Are there any plans for exposing more tools as
metrics to help users make their content more performant?
Yes.
Um There is
uh there's a few things I actually want to do here. Um
And it kind of comes in different layers.
Um One thing would be to have like just basic timer metrics. So you know, you have
an object, uh you have a slot in the hierarchy,
you go through and you slap like a sort
of timer metric component or something along those lines
and just go through,
it goes through and gives you measurements of uh that specific slot in the hierarchy
in terms of how long it took to process everything within that part of the hierarchy
and then going uh as deep as uh having something
like uh uh like a microsecond or a PICO second
um
like resolution profile of something like Tracy that you
can just go through and connect to Fruits engine with
and just say, oh OK.
So this is what's running uh good, this is what's running bad and so on.
I want to do the latter anyways just because that'd be kind
of useful to have from a development perspective on our end.
But we could also potentially open that up um to uh to you guys as well.
Um So you can just kind of do like your
own profiling um with really stupid levels of granularity.
Um But it's, it's something we need to work out, work out a little bit more.
Um We'll, we'll figure it out though.
Easton asks.
I thought the asset variant system already uh streamed the lower quality textures.
Mhm.
Um To an extent. So the A VS can actually produce lower resolution textures.
Yes, that is absolutely something it can do.
Um
However,
like
you're still getting like the high resolution textures at the end of the day.
Once you finish loading, it's you,
you're still getting the highest resolution version.
Um What we need, what we would need to do here is make it so that like as a user,
you can go through and say, hey, I only want textures up to this resolution
and then wherever you, wherever the client goes through and reaches out to the A BS,
it goes through and just request specifically
the texture up to that resolution.
Um That's pretty much what we would end up doing there.
Another thing that we would probably end up doing
here as well is making the client decide.
OK, what's actually important to stream in at whatever
resolution uh that you've set.
Uh So for example,
not I, if something's out of view,
we probably don't need to have the highest resolution
texture resident in V ra M at that point.
Instead,
we can probably just go through and have either a low resolution
or just not have that texture in VR AM at all.
Um And further away objects,
we could also apply some rules uh along those lines as well.
Uh There's lots of ins and outs to make that sort of system work though,
from a developer perspective, like the content developers perspective,
like for example, having streaming priorities and stuff like that.
Um But it's definitely something we want to do and the A
BS is already set up to pump these sorts of assets out.
Uh game.
The cup dog asks any idea if we're going, if we're,
if we're gonna get an an experimental quest building time soon.
Uh No, not really.
I mean, there's just uh once again,
there's like a lot of optimization work that
has to happen for full stand alone support.
Modern asks,
are you aware that vertex lighting on tune is pretty much non
existent in mirrors or is there a way to fix that?
Um
I mean, I wasn't aware,
file a github,
please.
Ozzie asks, is there any suggestions you have for people making github
issues that can make it more convenient for you guys?
Oh,
I mean,
doing a little bit of searching
and fighting existing gith hubs and then, you know,
giving them a thumbs up just to say,
just as a sign of you are also experiencing that problem is kind of nice.
Um
That also kind of acts as a bit of a signal for us when it comes down to our priorities.
So, you know,
please do that
uh when you can
uh even if you don't really have any specific
thing to report just going through and just saying,
oh, hey, yeah, I've experienced that bug before.
Let's click on that and then give it a little thumbs up icon.
Um That helps us out a bit when it comes down to trying to prioritize this stuff. So
otherwise just stick to the forms, make sure you are giving us all of your logs.
Uh We can't really help you guys a lot of the time
where we don't have any logs uh to go off of.
So
and uh also try to include unity player logs
and stuff like that in the case of crashes.
And other like really,
really bad things like that.
Also in the case of like visual bugs and artifacts and whatnot,
uh make sure to take screenshots um
trying to describe in text what something looks like is not nearly as useful as,
hey, here's a screenshot, it looks broken. What do
I mean, logs are always useful um
for visual stuff,
like I said, screenshots, screenshots, screenshots, but you know,
logs once again are just always generally useful.
So
we do actually have, we do actually log some um hardware information
and the log as well.
So I would still say that that's
important.
Yep, as Oz mentioned,
logs always give more information than you think be it version and other things.
Let's see. I'll give us just because it's a little bit late. I'll give us till
five past the hour
and we'll wrap it up.
Remember everyone, there are no stupid questions.
Game, the cup dog gas are more parts of resonate plan to be open sourced.
Um Over time, we actually went to open source uh different parts of the engine
um leading up to eventual full open sourcing of resonate
uh just to set the expectation around that.
Like this is a year down the road sort of thing just to be 100% clear.
You're not gonna see
like sometime in 2024 you just suddenly you see like a, a version of resonate,
just open source on github uh
from us. No, what you're gonna see is you're gonna see like small components um as
we see fit just kind of going up. So
uh
I mean, data model
maybe one of these days after we get everything refactored, uh you, you do,
you do need to understand that there are certain parts of the engine that we intend to
commercialize, to license to other projects
kind of in line with going through and um
you know,
having more stand alone uh application support,
that sort of thing.
Um So for example,
one day you could potentially use proto flux in a unity project if you wanted to
um stuff like that.
So
Ozz asks uh one of the bigger performant docket items
that is feasible currently without sauce is a data model,
rework, rework slash driving behavior, right?
I do know the issue of some proto
flex still doing calculations when disabled and such.
Yes. Uh that's
gonna be a pre sauce fix
or effort uh overall um going through and
taking a good look at our disabled state stuff um
getting the new data model out and all that good stuff. So
um that's probably not gonna be leaps
and bounds in terms of performance improvement,
but it does help a little bit.
We may also attempt to go through and do a.net eight
up update sooner rather than later by just kind
of moving Fruits Engine into its own process.
Um And then just kind of like having some hooks for unity,
uh which would actually help things, uh which,
which would actually make things a little bit easier for sauce in the future,
um, as well.
Uh That's actually another thing that we've,
we're kind of thinking about, we don't really have any firm plans around yet.
Um going through and supporting the likes of um
supporting the likes of uh Interros
communication and multiprocessors and stuff like that.
So if something really bad happens in one world,
it only crashes, uh that instance of Fruits engine,
it doesn't crash the entire game.
So
uh game the Cup Dog just kind of notes here. Um
I just hope Indie slash fo
steps have some sort of catering towards. I don't ever want to lock anything.
I make my new paywall if I can help it.
I mean,
like
there isn't really anything that's saying you have
to put things behind a paywall today,
resonate.
Um Nothing says you have to do that.
Um
So
over time, you know,
being able just to have different components of the engine
and perhaps the majority of the engine itself uh open source
that has certain benefits. Yeah.
Um
but you know, as far as the core platform and the core business itself, like,
you know,
you you're still paying for storage and stuff like that. So
I don't ask whether there be some sort of cloth simulation in the future.
Uh Maybe we'll see um stuff like cloth simulation can be pretty cool.
Yeah, but like how a lot of games do that sort of thing nowadays
is actually just utilizing dynamic bones. So
for ask, speaking of storage, any update on non Patreon subscriptions.
Y uh we are going to do that.
We are in the process of evaluating payment processor right now.
Um We have a couple of pretty solid, solid looking options.
Uh Ones that al
also just don't really care about content as much
as long as it's not something explicitly illegal.
So,
yep,
we'll have more updates forthcoming on that one.
We just need to kind of do some admin process
on our side and then just get it implemented.
Uh
One thing that I wanna do is rework the accounts uh web page.
Uh So you can also just do direct subscription through that.
Uh That one's somewhere on my to do list.
It's just get the accounts, uh the account system page,
uh looking in line with our current website and all that stuff.
Voy Paw asked, how do I stop? Ring about colors
by not worrying about colors.
Like seriously, that is a very big rabbit hole to go down.
Ok. We're at 556.
Yeah,
little bit under 10 minutes guys.
Uh
You're at the end of it, you can still ask questions.
So, and there will be recordings uh posted up on prime's website at some point. So,
but feel free. Go ahead. We haven't done a question, cut off.
So you're more than welcome to, uh
you know,
post question.
Uh Modern asks another question.
This is a feature I really want,
but I'm unsure of the feasibility because it's such a specific issue.
If you move a mesh's bones,
the normals may do some weird artifact stuff depending on what the rest of what,
what the rest pose of the model is in.
I'd really like a way to recalculate normals of a
certain blend shape based on the current armature armature position
because I can't actually get the look that I want.
Um
hm
make a github
post some examples of what you're getting at here.
That sounds like a weird one.
It could also be that the meshes uh blend uh normals for the blend
shapes are kind of busted as well that happens from time to time.
Um So,
and if you have like a test mesh that you can provide,
um that would also be helpful as well.
Yeah, go ahead and link it. That's fine.
Let's see what we've got here.
Huh? Interesting.
Yeah, that is a weird one.
Uh Kyra asks
this probably has been asked to add nauseam elsewhere, but briefly,
since I'm curious,
are there any plans for eventual support,
support for dot unity package importance.
Um
Well,
that's a complicated one.
So maybe
at some point we could figure something out there.
Um But it's just really complicated because like
we can go through and get to the assets inside of unity package and import those.
Yeah, like textures, meshes, et cetera,
but
then there's the component side of things. So like if you set up, like say a
avatar for a different platform
and you were to try and import the unity package,
we wouldn't be able to really set up the
avatar how it's supposed to be set up necessarily um
in resonate. Like it's really hard to go 1 to 1 with that sort of thing.
We could probably do it from a just get
the raw assets out and imported in uh perspective,
but any sort of functionality such as any unity components
would end up getting lost in the process.
One thing we have thought about is going through and uh reworking uh well,
having a unity SSDK
that allows you to basically build everything directly inside the unity editor
and be able to export those out or otherwise just be able to,
you know, do things from within the editor while you're connected to a world.
Um That could be more useful.
Um
But yeah,
it's, it's something to consider.
Um
We, we'll, we'll see,
we've also, by the way,
been thinking about doing a actual resonate package format as well.
So you can like distribute uh resonate assets offline.
Uh Again, no firm decisions have been made around that just yet.
We kind of already have something like that with the uh Bison
files that we have.
Um
but uh it, it is something we are actively considering.
E
but I mean, yeah, like
I think this is actually a really good uh potential use case for having a unity SDK
because at least then you can like go through and import
a unity asset and then set up directly inside of unity and export it to resonate. So
um I'll have to go through and do some extra uh some research
on what it's gonna take us to really do that sort of thing.
Uh We may have to like
have some sort of binding generator,
but really if we were to do the DC C link
that I've been talking about on and off here and there,
uh we would need to go through and do a lot of this stuff anyways. So
it is six or three. We're gonna do a question, cut off. I will answer Bismarck's
question and then we're probably gonna consider it done for the day.
Uh Speaking of color,
I was pondering this being more of a question on your personal opinion.
How do you think the development of color management should go for VR applications?
Should we just emulate
watching a VR video taken with a 360 camera,
it looks like as in using just what's used for flat screen
applications trying to match our eyesight's color perception as close as possible
or trying to make H MD displays match the actual light you'd
receive as much as possible to let our brain handle it.
Uh
I mean,
generally when it comes down to development and
keeping in mind color spaces and whatnot,
um,
usually it's good enough even for VR, just go off of what a monitor's color space is.
Just, just go through and target that and stick with that.
Um
Trying to decide tr trying to target specific light outputs and stuff like that.
That's when you start getting into like HDR displays,
which, and which we don't really have too many HDR headsets on the market right now,
like the PSVR two,
that's an HDR headset and boy does it show.
Um
But that's not really something that's broadly available for PC
just yet.
Um There are some super high end headsets as well.
Um Like, I think the XR four
supports that.
Um But you know, it's, it's just one of those things that uh
yeah, we, we,
we just don't really have good hardware for like specific color authoring yet.
Yeah,
just go through and pick a color space that you think
makes sense that is broadly supported and designer around that.
Um
I mean, in an ideal case,
we'd all have AC R headsets and we can actually go through and just say, all right,
I'm gonna go through and use DC IP three as my target target color space
and then start designing for specific lu uh luminance outputs.
Uh But
unfortunately,
we're nowhere near that ideal right now.
We we don't really have, uh, headsets that support, um HDR or really have
particularly good DC IP three coverage.
All right, we are at 606.
we're gonna wrap it up.
Uh,
so I can go ahead and get this recording off to prime so we can hopefully get that up,
uh, pretty soon.
Uh Thank you everyone for joining in today.
Um, the next office hours will be just checking my calendar.
Uh January 3rd.
Anyways, thanks everyone. Have a good day.